Robert Rizea: The hard work started after we received £2m for our start-up

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Julie Wilkinson 

Hi, I’m Judy Wilkinson, and I’m a chartered management accountant. And I’m excited to be launching the build and exit podcast. This podcast is for business owners and entrepreneurs who are looking to expand their business portfolio by acquisition or at some point in the future, when to exit their business. We’re going to bring real life stories and experiences of people who have grown by acquisition, who have exited their businesses, and other areas of business such as funding and cash flows. So there’ll be lots of opportunity to learn different areas of business and how you can in the end, transition your business from a lifestyle to an asset to look forward to seeing you soon. Hi, and welcome to the Bolton exit Podcast. I’m Judy Wilkerson, and I’m your host. I’m the owner and founder of Wilkinson accounting solutions. And I started the podcast at the back of the work we do in my company books and accounting solutions. We specialise in m&a. And we realised there was a gap in the market of financial understanding across business owners, entrepreneurs and investors. So we’ve had lots of guests. It’s October 23. I’m really excited because we got over 2000 listeners in forbearance. So it’s been really good this year, and we’re looking to expand the show. But today I have Robert Vizio with me. Hi, Robert.

 

Robert Rizea 

Hello, everyone. Hey, Julie.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Thanks for coming on. I know Yes, you’re welcome. So I’ve asked Robert to come on the show because he in 2020, launched a company called racket pow. It’s in sports tech, helping expand people that play racquet sports. And interestingly, he’s had to go through a few number of rounds of funding. So across two years, raised about 2 million pounds successfully. And the last round was about a year ago. So he’s now been traded a year with that funding. So we’re going to talk a bit about why he went for the funding, all pros and cons or things he went through to get the funding and I think it’d be really useful for the listeners, startups or just people looking for funding through sort of angel or venture capitalists of what type of things to expect. So Robert, first. So head over to Robert, and you can tell us a little bit about yourself.

 

Robert Rizea 

Yes, starting with myself, and when why we actually started rocket house. So I played tennis. professionally. When I was younger, I studied in the US, I played college tennis there, while my background being within marketing, and growth, paid acquisition and paid media. So I was before I could call that. That’s what I was doing. I moved to London, I did my master’s degrees there and started working as well. And then 29 End of 2019 2020 I wasn’t playing tennis anymore because of injuries. And because I realised I’m not going to be at the end is more a Andy Murray’s level. But then I wanted to still play and get back in shape. And I just knew no one that I could play with. That was my level. It was just complicated to find people based on their availabilities, their level, their location, I didn’t know where to play. And then I met Luckily, my co founder, who is also a question a badminton player, he had the same issues with he’s the tech person, I’m the marketing person. And it’s always good to have both sides in a company. So we started off as a passion project as a part time project, we had both our full time jobs. We said why don’t we do this part time. And it started growing. Without us doing so much in the beginning, we went to a few, a few we had a few 1000 users while doing it part time. Someone suggested guys, this has a big potential. We heard it a few times. And then we really thought about maybe we give it a real shot. But for that we need some money to survive, and to move full time. And that’s how it all started. But that’s it in a nutshell.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

That’s interested that you plan to know you need the money because you’d be surprised how many businesses are building that haven’t really got that plan. So how did you first of all plan how much you thought you needed? In terms of?

 

Robert Rizea 

Well, we didn’t so actually we said let’s we didn’t know from the beginning that we needed money. So we said let’s move full time. We gave up our full time jobs we move full time at racquetball, and we said okay, together myself and Bogdan we have X amount of money, how long will that last us for and how can we make it longer? So we moved in together? I moved in at least twice actually. So we cut the costs and we live together for like four or five months so we really could give it our all spend the money that we had and cut costs and then we realise where money is running out. Very similar in money ran out and then we said okay, we really want to do this. We really believe in it. It was still growing while we were while we were while I moved in with him and and then we said we need some money to survive. I’ve what we need the money for where we need money for us to survive ourselves. So the minimum salary in London that someone can eat and live, and then we need help from like a part time designer when they’ll form a part time developer. And we need this to last for, well, 1214 months so that we don’t need to go through the whole process. And that’s how we came up with the first figure that was I think about 250k. In initial funding, so and that was it.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

It’s good that you did that, though. I don’t know if you’ve ever Have you ever read any any of Elon Musk books or heard any of his podcast that he talks on? When he was start? Well, I don’t know how far you come because I haven’t read the full book yet. But I heard like snippets on his podcasts, and he moved in, he lived in a like this office space. And he was born. Apparently he was borrowing money from friends to pay the rent at that time, because all the money was going to SpaceX and Tesla. So you know, all the good entrepreneurs do so it sounds like So although you might not have had an official plan, I think you probably plan a bit more than you thought. Because to actually do that, and even share, you know, apartments together and stuff to say ready, theoretically, you are planning and you might not have had like a 10 page business plan. But you know, you did have some simple plan. So that was good. So anyway, so you then needed this 150k At the first round. So what did you do?

 

Robert Rizea 

Well, and then we struggled because we knew nothing about raising money. It looked a lot like, well, people will look look look look like begging in the beginning. Because there’s also a process of raising this money, not just hey, give me money, please, please, please. And then that’s how I pretty much did it in the beginning with a lot of please, I’ve given the money without what I learned. But I’m a quick learner. I don’t know things. But I’m a quick learner. It took us it took us a long time. First of all, it took us seven months. Actually, we were we were almost about to say to put a stop to it. But luckily, because we there was just no more money left for us to survive on and we needed some jobs, or at least some income coming in for any of us. But luckily, we met we managed to the question was how we managed to raise the first 150k, right. I literally, luckily, we found someone that has been through the process before worked on the VC side. And that was a bit a few months after we tried doing it ourselves. And we didn’t have any success. He has taught us the basics, the basics of fundraising that you need a deck, the really the basics, you need a pitch deck, you need a blurb an email with bullet points, you need to call read call outreach, you need to understand the criteria on the investment criteria of either the people or the VCs, but it was too early for VC. So some people only invest in XYZ, and reach out to those like don’t just last hundreds of meals. So everybody, there’s angel investments, you need to think of valuation, you need to have financial projections, like just the basics. We’ve done all of that we weren’t for a few months, we put fundraising in a stop, we worked for a month at preparing, literally preparing with his help. And that is when we went much more prepared into meetings and into I started going to the face to face events to the social events. So reaching out on LinkedIn, I started cold calling people cold emailing. And I realised at that point, which it was an important realisation that it’s a numbers game out of considering a 5% conversion rate of people answering an email, then how many of them actually invest? If you reach 100 people, 10 of them, let’s say answer your emails out of them. Two of them take a second call, and maybe are lucky and one of them invests so when if you apply this conversion rates a bit step, then you realise it is a numbers game, you know, you need to reach 1000 people maybe to have one or two or three investors in the beginning when you have nothing when you barely have any traction, when it’s just your ward. And you’re very little traction and product and MVP against against money. So but but yeah, we managed to find someone that has been with us throughout the journey and incredible initial angel who has invested in in all the rounds after that, from the Czech Republic, who is a tennis player. So you need also to understand, Okay, well you use this try to speak and reach out to people who are interested in this space who are well, we’ll have the space. It will it will get you further. And but yeah, so that was it. That was it in a nutshell that the first money and then after that we managed to grow. We raised two additional rounds, totaling 2 million a bit. I think over 2 million up until today.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Did you get when you will call calling and trying to find I mean did you get a lot of backlash from that people that just hang Good afternoon wasn’t interested. Yeah,

 

Robert Rizea 

of course. But I never had. I’m, I’m the extrovert between myself and my co founders. So I never had the issue of the fear of rejection. The fear of just being just people hanging up the phone, I just knew that the next person I call call the next person, and I reach out to the next person and email could change my life could change. We can get investment from that person. So with this mentality, I have no issues getting 1000 knows if I know the 1001 person I’m going to reach is going to say yes, I have no Resha going through 1000 notes before every single no is a learning process. Every single No, I get as much Oh, well, maybe I use the wrong wording. Maybe that didn’t make sense. Maybe I was too pushy. So I’m trying to improve every single email every single call call every single pitch I did, I was trying to improve, get feedback, retrospectively improve tried new things. So it was a learning process. And I think everybody needs to go through 1000s of nodes, to actually to actually raise funds to do something.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

I’m really excited to announce that we have found our first collaboration. So Robert, who is a co founder of racket pow has kindly offered our guests and listeners, their own discount code specifically for his company racket pow. The reason I resonated and decided to collaborate with racket powers. Partly Robert story, I always think the best businesses are built from a passion of love. And ultimately, Robert used to be a professional, semi professional tennis player. When he moved to London, he couldn’t find people that he could play with or where to play the sport that he loved. And from there, he’s built this amazing community, that’s now allowing other racquet players to be able to find the right level and play the sport that they love and enjoy the most. So I’m really proud are grateful that he’s offered our listeners their own 50% discount code. So you can download racquet pow from app stores. And when you register, it will ask you for a discount code. So you can add in Wilk pow which is w i l KPAL. From there, you get 50% off your annual subscription. And within the description. There’s lots that you receive for that subscription, you can book coaching sessions, you have unlimited chat access, and you can find other players and matches that suit your level, age, location, etc. So I am so grateful that we’ve decided to keep this collaboration set up. And I look forward to seeing you soon. Yeah, I mean, that’s a real inspirational message because I think you’d be surprised how many people would potentially give up on the first few knows my favourite quote ever and I always say this I watched. I watched Diary of a CEO, and Davina McCall went on. I love Davina. And her quote was whatever she gets a No she doesn’t see it as a no, she just sees it as a not now. I love that quote

 

Robert Rizea 

of a CEO as well. It’s good.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Yeah. But this is good. Because you know, it’s really important for you to understand that things don’t just fall into people’s lap. In the end, people make things happen. And, you know, this is why I want you to come on the show, because I think it’s important for people to look at Yeah, yes, it’s great. You’ve got the funding your problem, you’re now on that journey to grow in the business. But you didn’t always start that way. So and now he gets in there. So So you did the first round

 

Robert Rizea 

is not a success in itself funding, it doesn’t mean success. That is something that it it means the world just starts now. You know, it was incredibly hard. And people just I feel they they’re happy that they have a beer Oh, why we raised investment. But no, it’s actually I needed this money to make for the work to start for the real world to start.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

So now that you know what you’ve learned from these rounds of funding if you were starting something new, so you were the person going into the investment round in first place, what would you have changed at the beginning? Not for you necessary? Because obviously I know you don’t ever regret necessarily what you’ve done, but I’m saying if somebody else was going to start your journey, what would you recommend they have in place to start a funding round?

 

Robert Rizea 

There’s a few things I would do different from a funding perspective. There’s a few things for sure. I will do things different from a business perspective because they found your business. So if I were to go back because every in every single funding round I learned a lot about my business and how we should do things and what to look for and what are the KPIs and every single funding round. i It was dreadful, but it has taught me a lot of things. A lot of things we would not be here If not for those investor discussions that said no, that said, think about this, I don’t think it’s a good idea. So in the first place, I would see it as a full time job fundraising is at least one founders full time job, if not one full time job and a half, because Bogdan also started doing the moment, we realise how hard it could be. And it was, he started joining me as well. So treat it as a full time job. And add two, three more months to your expected closed date. Because nothing ever goes as planned. And even if you have all the 10 people lined up that want to invest, and they say, yes, yes, I’m gonna write the check for you tomorrow. There comes the legal stuff, there comes the legal negotiations, there comes term sheets, and all it all it implies I had to learn a completely new language, when it comes to when it comes to raising a price round, like a valuation round. Because there’s liquidation preference and preference shares, and there’s just a lot. So before starting out, read, there’s a book I had, that I don’t remember the name of it, but it was short. How to raise funding round it was it’s a small, red book, I am going to remember inside, but you can read online, anybody can read online terms that everybody should know, when raising a fund, what are the things that need to happen to raise the font how to create a deck, at least spend one month preparing a deck, the financials, the data room, and just rehearse, rehearse things? Before you go out in a meeting, you will change things in though when you get feedback, but rehearse them, practice them, and familiarise yourself with with the nuances of angel investing of what is the valuation round? What is the safe? What is the exit strategy, people will ask you this, even if it happens in 10 years, people will still ask you, and you need to have an answer. Unfortunately, you need to have an answer for everything they asked investors ask. So treat it as a full time job pre prepared, and then read things before and and try to get on your side, someone that has learned before either on the father’s side or on the VC side. So get yourself a you can call it an advisor, or a fundraising someone that has just done it, that can be with you maybe just one two hours a week. And the beginning can give you a few tips and tricks. It it saves a lot of time in and pain. Like these are the main three. But before that, you know we didn’t have any paying users when we first raised our first funding round. And there was a lot a lot of questions on revenue model and why we don’t make money? And how do we plan to so maybe start or at least testing a revenue model. Before that we have some initial some initial data to go into into, into the discussions with you will not have 10,000 paying users in the beginning when when you just launched, but at least you have 510 20 something some initial pain traction, because we were having 5000 users, but they were all free users. And we didn’t know if people would convert into paying users. So there are a few business decisions and business things that I would do differently before starting fundraise not just funding specific things.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

So when you are interested to know, so when you build the financials for the funding you need, did you price in salaries for like you and the owner? Was that priced in? Because that’s quite a big topic. Yeah. So you did it. Yeah. Because it’s quite a big topic. Because some I see some posts from VCs saying that maybe founders shouldn’t take salaries. I mean, I think if you’re going to work in somewhere, you’ve got obviously pay yourself and it’s the realistic commercials for that for that job. So you priced in your own salaries, funding?

 

Robert Rizea 

Yes, we did. And luckily, luckily, we found people that told us that if we don’t pay ourselves, they are not going to invest in us, because then they will invest in two people that are worrying more about what they’re going to eat tomorrow than about starting a they’re about running the business and growing it. So luckily, we’ve met investors that understood that we’re not going to pay ourselves 100 grand, we’re going to pay ourselves and it was in the initial financials, and the first round the bare minimum, you know, like we paid ourselves the minimum, but we did, because, well, somehow we needed to survive and not, you know, be hospitalised of malnutrition or whatever. So, so it is a big topic. I actually do not understand why is this such a big topic because we’ve put all of we’ve put all of our savings savings like the level of determination was seen of where we were at that when we’re living together, we’ve cut costs as much as possible. We put all our savings and timing to him for I don’t know how long before we raced at least nine months before we raised our first round. So there was no one that could tell us how committed are these guys? Right? So then everybody knew that we need to also live and pay ourselves and you someone cannot grow a company if they are not healthy, if they are not paying themselves. And I saw, I really don’t understand why this is such a big topic of discussion. When when founders need to be healthy, they need to leave somehow, but also not. Well, I understand a bit wide is a big topic, because maybe some funders weigh themselves in the first year or 200k. You know, so that is not fair for the investor. But there needs to be a balance and there needs to be respect. And

 

Julie Wilkinson 

yeah, so now you’ve got the funding? How often do you have to report the financials to your investors?

 

Robert Rizea 

We don’t really well, things we’ve also we’ve been, we’ve been through three rounds right now. And the last one was actually VC combined with a few angels. We don’t actually report financials themselves, we have data room that we fill in data on Excel with the financials that we fill it in at the end of every month. So that because we had some projections, and they want to see how we’re doing, from a bar rates run rate perspective against those projections, so we keep it we have an Excel where they everybody can see any single day. And they are always updated every single month, how we are doing in terms of run rate, instead of born, how many months we have left, and everything so so that we don’t report, we just made this it’s always updated, and people can see there every single time. We do have other reports that you know, evolution reports that we currently do and how the business is growing and KPIs reports and I’m writing all the texts we do that I do that every two months or BI monthly i given I update all the shareholders today with evolution and with progress. And what has worked well lowlights highlights, what we need to improve on what are the next steps. And I always put a link to the financials people can see what Yeah.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

So you’re reporting that every couple of months?

 

Robert Rizea 

Yes, every by monitoring? Yeah.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Okay. And was that at request of the shareholder like the investors? Or was that just something you’re choosing to do? Did they request that you send them update you

 

Robert Rizea 

wanted me to send them, they wanted us to send them quarterly, I think quarterly, it was a it was a an easy discussion, because they didn’t need to request anything, because I want to keep them up to date. So they didn’t actually need to tell me, Robert, we would like to see from day one, I said, guys, you’re gonna you’re going to read it, you’re not going to read it, I, it’s up to you, I am going to send these to you. And so that at the end of the year, no one says that they couldn’t see the evolution, I didn’t keep them up to date. But it’s also a way for me to keep an open line of communication to them and ask for things and ask for feedback and ask for their ideas. You know, you’d rather keep your investors involved, even if it’s just a little bit through bimonthly calls. And then, so that you always have that line of communication open with them and honest communication, then them not hearing from you for half a year a year. Things go bad, and it’s going to cause issues. So I’m the person that actually shares things with them on good and bad things, so and then not so good things.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

So you talked about an exit plan. So do you have an exit route for the business? Is that something you setting up?

 

Robert Rizea 

Neither, we’re not setting up at the beginning an accent, we’ve got so much more to lose? We’ve got so much so much more to grow before we actually probably think of an exit but there is a natural, there are a few natural exit solutions, which may want I think it’s an exit in terms of a sell out to to someone that is strategic in our industry, you know, you could you could think about manufacturers, you could think of fitness apps and the big ones and sort of thrive our it could be to be a private equity firm it at a certain point but I do believe that we are quite far away from from from an exit point. I mean, we are researchers reached we’ve surpassed 100,000 users and that is mainly in London, but it’s still you know, I mean, it’s still one CD out of this whole world. We are looking to grow to the entirety of the UK we are looking at the b2b model which actually proves the most valuable and and the Lord have potential in the b2b to see but especially in the b2b where we are right now offering the solution to clubs, to venues to councils, for their own members for their own players. So there’s still a lot of work to be done for us to, for us to grow and to think of annexing but yes, it is. In my background,

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Yeah, cuz that will get we’ve got some guests coming on in the future about exits. Because one of the things when people say exit, everyone just automatically things for Lex it. But actually, a lot of things we talked about is partial exit. So some people go so it sounds like you’re quite owner operated at the minute where you and your partner are doing quite a lot of work in the business. The first stage exit for people would be for the first stage exit would be how can I get support to replace some of my role, if you want to, not everybody wants to, but that’s the first agents at the firm, it doesn’t always have to be afforded the first stage would be how can somebody else replace some of my role, which might be you know, a CFO or more of a finance team doing some of the KPIs and financial reporting, it could be a marketing team helping you do the marketing, you know, it could be, though, so you’ve probably got some tech, but that would be the first stage so that people start transitioning from being an owner operator more into like a C suite, I suppose more of a silent director themselves, silent investor themselves, that’s first exit, and then long term exit. Because ultimately, in the end, if you build a job, if you build a business, where as owners and founders, you don’t run it anymore, then it comes a time where people start saying, well, actually, do I need a full exit? Because why would you sell something in full as making money if you don’t have to run it? So? Yeah, I think that’s one of the things is,

 

Robert Rizea 

you need to be at a good point, yeah. Variable to just leave it and take your hands off. I mean, we, we do have a team of 15 people right now. And marketing, we have someone taking care marketing, we have had the dev team and the tech team is the biggest we have someone on data analysts. So there are things that we don’t need to do anymore, we have a head of product, you know, and, but they’re still like I’m doing sales currently, you know, involved in is. So there’s always something at the moment that I need to be operationally involved in, because it’s still we’re still a startup. And I still need to do things myself, and as much as I get help from the others, and they cover some aspects of it.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Okay, so what’s the future for racket pal? And I mean, what are you going on any more funding rounds, or,

 

Robert Rizea 

most likely, most likely, because when? Well, I want to tie it when with with a few recommendations, and then I can, I can tell you a bit more about about the future of us. So a few things that I that people need to know that I wish I wish I would have known before I started fundraising. So the moment you raise your first round, you are most likely bound to raise future ones, and you will be dependent on external capital for a long time. It is, it is just a different journey than bootstrapping. But that is the first thing someone has to remember that you will always need external capital to grow, always, you will need a few more rounds of external capital. So the pain doesn’t just stop at the first funding round, it continues the next ones. So that is the first thing. The second one is you are married to those investors for quite a few years. And then married is a weak word is profit, sometimes more than marriage. But if there is just something, something that just doesn’t feel right, when someone offers you that money when investor but the other way around is an investor to a founder, or at least I’m speaking from a founder perspective, just don’t take the money, it’s not worth the 100k. Although it sounds a lot and it could save your life is that 100 comes comes with someone that is there’s just not right in the head or whatever it is, it’s just not right. It’s not worth it, you will, you’ll hate your life. And you can get into legal problems. And so don’t get money just from anybody. So that is like a second recommendation. And the third one is to see it as a learning experience and not as I need to get this money because if you it can build up frustration that you did three months, four months, five months went over and you didn’t get the money in a bid and believe me, it can build up a lot of frustration and the pressure is quite big. But if you start seeing it as I need this money, but I’m also in a learning process because every single funding round, you need to do research you need to think about the project is revenue, which is again, a lot of research you need to give it about the hiring plan, a product roadmap, a tech roadmap, etc. If you see this whole process as this plan this six months is going to make my immune diseases so much stronger, and it is also going to help With the raising funding round, you will hopefully, maybe you will start enjoying the process a bit more, it’s a small thing to enjoy. But at least you will not be putting so much pressure on yourself. And it took me two funding rounds to learn it. The third one that we’re seeing, and it’s a revamp of my process, a small pivot is learning those discussions, every single discussion with these investors, you’re talking to people that have a huge amount of experience, much more than I had. And they’ve seen so many businesses, they forget some of the smartest and best people in the world. The questions that they ask, it’s the learning process. It’s Wait a second, he asked me this question and you look into it. I used to stay after investor calls and look into things and think about them and, and change a bit my take my approach, it’s a huge learning process to speak with these people that you wouldn’t actually speak to normally, with the likes of you know, PVC be dangerous money with people with millions. So these are the three things and obviously the fourth, please look at it as a full time job. It is a full time job. It is absolutely someone’s full time job fundraising.

 

Julie Wilkinson 

Yeah. So you’ve there your recommendations, which are really good, I think I can relate to all of them from people I see getting investment. So as we’re coming towards the end of the podcast, I mean, what are you what is plans racket powers, specifically now? Yes.

 

Robert Rizea 

So we still luckily, when we raised a year ago, so we had we planned for a run rate of 18 months, so I don’t need to go, again, six months after six months since I finished. So we do plans till we’ve just did a small pivot and are looking to grow a bit into the b2b side, which is tennis clubs, squash clubs, the venues, the councils that own tennis courts and whatnot. So we have a solution that helps people play more racquet sports and be more active by meeting people then playing in leagues leaderboards, tracking their scores. So we have a solution that if people play more, it means there are more cores being booked, it means more revenue. So we can offer our solution to clubs, again, to route councils, for their players and their members to use to communicate to chat. So we’ve noticed and we’ve had quite some success over the past month, with the trials we’ve run. And it’s going to look like the focus will be the b2b to see because there’s also the users that come on the app. But this is expanding that in the UK, the pilots were successful. Now we’re gonna focus on expanding that. In the UK, we have some discussions with clubs in the US actually, as well, because why not? It’s very similar. The market so this will be the full focus, we will most likely need another funding round in seven, eight months. Seven, eight. Yeah, I think almost nine months from now. But that also depends on how the b2b goes. And I couldn’t give you more details currently, because I don’t have them. And I’m focusing on sales on the b2b. But we had funding rounds again, we are you’re bound to more funding rounds in the future. And then that’s that’s about it not really growing the team anymore. We’ve got everybody we need. We have an amazing team. So

 

Julie Wilkinson 

so watch out, watch out funders, because you’ll be coming. Come around to him in few months. Well, anyway, thanks so much for coming on. It’s been really interesting to hear I think this was definitely a worthwhile episode. Because there’s a lot you’ve talked about there about resilience and working about like mindset in terms of investments. So I think that’s really important. So thanks so much for coming on. And a bit. Yeah, and you know, tenacity. So, but, um, thanks to all our listeners on the next. No, thank you. And thanks to all our listeners on the build next podcast. I’m really pleased to have you’re listening. And if you have any episode topics, feel free to drop us a message. And please do subscribe, or rate and review on Apple or Spotify. And I look forward to seeing you soon. So once again, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our podcast. I hope you found it useful. If you did, there’s anyone else in your network that might benefit from our podcast and please share it with them even just click the link and send it to them or send it in a Facebook group or other social media channel. Don’t forget to subscribe. So other podcasts come to you directly as of when we launch them. So I’m really looking forward to seeing you next time. We’ve got some really exciting things coming up. And we’ll see you again soon.