Adam Lawrence – How to build a 7 figure EBITDA

Follow the accounting podcast channels

Julie Wilkinson  00:03

Hi, I’m Judy Wilkinson, and I’m a chartered management accountant. And I’m excited to be launching the build and exit podcast. This podcast is for business owners and entrepreneurs who are looking to expand their business portfolio by acquisition, or at some point in the future, when to exit their business. We’re going to bring real life stories and experiences of people who have grown by acquisition, who have exited their businesses, and other areas of business such as funding and cash flows. So there’ll be lots of opportunity to learn different areas of business and how you can in the end, transition your business from a lifestyle to an asset to look forward to seeing you soon. Hi, welcome to the build exit Podcast. I’m Judy Wilkerson. And I really hope that you’re enjoying the episodes. Thanks for joining us today if you’re listening, and I’m really excited to launch our guests, Adam Lawrence today. So just a bit of background about the podcast first. So I’m Judy Wilkerson, and I will consider accounting solutions. I decided to set up the podcast because I work in acquisitions exit strategy planning with my business will consider Karen solutions. And I’m on a mission to save the world from failed acquisitions. Because I’ve seen historically there’s been quite a lot of poor information in businesses in general. So we’ve launched this podcast to give lots of exciting tips and guidance to our listeners. And Adam has a lot of experience. So he started the entrepreneurial journey in 2011. He’s worked with over 550 UK properties in his property portfolio. He’s had dozens of bought dozens of acquisitions, asset backed and trading businesses, and has actually built a JV business that’s probably worth close to 50 million assets and seven figure EBIT, da. So I’m sure he’s gonna be able to give us lots of interesting stories about his journey. So thanks for coming on, Adam. Thanks for having me, too. And, first of all, maybe you could hand over to you to give a bit of background about you.


Adam Lawrence  01:58

Sure thing? Yes. So I wrote a few years in corporate, which was mostly focused in financial services. So wealth management, I’ve worked for a couple of years abroad, in Geneva in Switzerland in a couple of boutique firms, which is good fun, no, nothing. It’s all about money when I went out there and learned an awful lot while I was, and I learned a lot about people as well. And it is absolutely fascinating. And I also worked in one of the UK’s top 10 lenders, across business consultants. So that was good for understanding how something that’s become very important to me borrowing money from the bank would would work, I decided to get into property and throw a lot of my energy into that after the great old crash of 2008. Because it made sense property stacked up, interest rates had gone down. We weren’t building enough houses, you know, the story in the UK, we haven’t made any decent inroads into that in the 12 years since then. And then got into, you know, as the property portfolio grew, the management became quite a drain on time. And I thought it would be a good idea to investigate how the professionals do it. So letting agents and I went on some training to become a better letting agent, but also to discover really, for myself, whether I should try and start a letting agency, or whether I should try and buy one. And that was the sort of that back that point in about 2015 2016. That was was really the moment when I thought, right, okay, I have to start expanding sort of horizontally by filling in a few gaps in the business and having a proper official management structure and stuff like that. So it was really clear to me from doing that, that buying one was a much better idea than starting one from scratch. And I put some feelers out. And I actually ended up buying two and then starting one anyway, because I realised there was a gap between what letting agents do day to day and what I needed from an internal litigate agency Asset Management arm to the group, I suppose if you like,


Julie Wilkinson  04:18

wow. After interested in that. So um, you’ve obviously got a lot of experience in the property and business world. So I think it’d be really great to share some experiences of sort of you touched on sort of why you baby did your first acquisition, but it’d be really great to hear some success stories or some of these acquisitions, but also maybe one where it didn’t go so well. So in terms of the acquisitions that you’ve done, are some of these still in the group today?


Adam Lawrence  04:47

Oh, yeah, the vast majority are as few disposals but the vast majority are so they either are operating in one particular individual area in the UK, so they’re kind of A little bit geographically constrained, because letting agents do tend to be like that, and that the ones aren’t. But as you say, I have divested from a couple as well. So I’ve done everything from sort of buying businesses for a pound, up to buying half of the business up to all sorts of things that a lot of people would consider to be a bit nuts, to be honest, too late. And if I, if I start, I’ll start with a good one. And then we can go on to a more difficult one, if you like. So I bought into one of the first ones I bought into. So I think we completed this in 2016, was half of an agency with a property professional that I had already known for some time, we have the past the whole sort of sniff test, we knew likes and trusted each other our values were similar, all the things that are that are key, but also he understood the strategic importance of the letting agency to his portfolio. And he does like a lot of people in property, who’ve been around for quite a long time, he bought a lot of units before 2008, when the funding side of things was very different. And then he ultimately stopped growing this portfolio at that point, restructured because there’d been so much, you know, easy money in inverted commas thrown at people in in sort of 2004 or 567. And haven’t really kicked the investment business on since then. Whereas I, I’d cut my teeth after the crash. So I’d have to use different and more creative tactics in order to grow my portfolio that still work in today’s environment, although COVID has obviously changed quite a lot. So I knew he was the right sort of person to work with his business partner wanting to sell out and he didn’t really, so that made it quite a difficult sell for anybody. They did agree to try and sell the whole thing on the open market. But he didn’t get any biters, they didn’t get any bites. And so half the shares were available, which I was trying to buy at a really good discount to value on that basis. So it wasn’t a big investment on the way in business was round about breaking even. And it still doesn’t, it’s not exciting necessarily on its own, although it does make a bit of profit these days. But what it is able to do is provide a big source of leads for property acquisitions and developments we might be looking at in the area, and it’s also able to manage everything, and has good financial reporting structures in place. So it sits in the group really nicely as a necessary evil, I suppose, if you like, but in terms of the equity, it’s been able to inject on the property side of the business. It’s been fantastic. They’re great people good to work with, I do get a kick out of providing employment, and I never want to oversee 500 people or so and people who run these very big organisations, I marvel at them, because I just would find it. As soon as I’ve lost track of, you know, a few details about people. And I didn’t if I didn’t know everyone who works and they I wouldn’t I wouldn’t feel quite so quite so good as I do about it, I’m sure


Julie Wilkinson  08:17

yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting is it so if you because when we were people, the acquisitions, people are doing it for different reasons. So they’re either trying to grow in the same industry, so take take away competitors, or maybe diversify or like it sounds like what you’ve done is if this lead AG is giving you this sort of source of funding, I suppose an option to that would be if you didn’t have it, you might be using brokers or something which then as a leads came in, it’d be a lot more expensive. So if you’ve kind of launched into an acquisition, there may be as good a cost effective route to get, you know, a different, different strategy up and running. But even though that might not be making as much money as others in the group, it might be, in a way, like reducing cost somewhere else in the group because you’d be having an extended cost somewhere else. If it wasn’t within the, you know, within your structure. Would you agree with that?


Adam Lawrence  09:05

I would say I think that’s spot on to the I think it’s definitely that it’s also peace of mind for an industry that is now you know, as you know, heavily tilted towards compliance, that also the boxes have been ticked on the compliance side of things, which is absolutely key so there’s an element of the control piece and it’s very much an element of the IT slots in on the cost cutting side of things as well and on the gear the opportunities that it can throw up absolutely.


Julie Wilkinson  09:37

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, cuz I think you know, we’ve all these I mean, we know we talk about all these no money down deals, you know, have wanted to live this entrepreneurial journey. I think a lot of people always think the acquisition has to be oh my god, it has to make X amount of money. It has to make X amount of profit. I don’t always think people are thinking longer term strategic longer term strategies. Like actually, although it might not make me Get X amount of profit, you know, as long as it’s, you know, it can break even it can generate as cashflow that it needs actually, what does it bring you value wise in other areas that, you know, from from looking at it from a group perspective, which is why we always talk about the group forecast in the group reporting, because cost must be coming down somewhere. If you acquired something that’s doing something that, you know, you’d be using a third party to do?


Adam Lawrence  10:22

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Yeah.


Julie Wilkinson  10:26

So that’s the good one. So while about one that maybe didn’t go so well, fear.


Adam Lawrence  10:37

Sure. So I can say about and again, it was, I’d say probably about two thirds of the acquisitions I’ve been involved in have been estate and letting agencies or one or the other or both. So this was the time just an estate agency didn’t have a lettings arm, it had a good thrusting person at the front of it, it was a good ambassador. But someone it didn’t really turn out to be a good or fair business partner, ultimately. So the cautionary tale, it really is, you really need to consider these things like you will consider getting married, not like you will consider going out on a date, you know, because you’re going to be so close to that person, potentially for quite a long time, when you’re looking at going into a joint venture, you really need to make sure that your values are the same and that your time and effort is going to be fairly considered and rewarded. And through my perspective, I guess there was a lot of financial support that went in more than was agreed in the first place in a very cheap buy in price for what it was. But that’s because it needed funds injecting into it, ultimately. And where we ended up well, actually COVID brought things to a bit of a natural end, because at the very beginning of COVID, everyone was very bearish on property. And because this was still primarily a sales driven estate agency, obviously the market was closed. And before all the government stimulus was announced, we were simply looking down the barrel of a big black hole over the next. And of course, we didn’t know for how long now my personal thought I try not to panic in any situation. Because if you do you just can’t survive in business, can you ultimately. But what I thought was, I’ve got so much exposure already, on the asset pricing side of things, what I really don’t need is a chain around my neck at this point is a sales driven estate agency that might need more and more money pumping into it in order to survive the pandemic. And what actually ended up happening, of course, is so did did sell out relatively quickly, it still took about three months to do the deal. But obviously that quite quick in acquisition and disposal terms, what we did was a favourable price, but with a runoff. So there wasn’t too much money upfront involved. And actually, that runoff works out well, because we were taking a percentage of sales for the next 18 months, which ended up being a spectacular 18 months for that agency and nearly any other agency around the country. So we don’t have the shares in their own thing at the wrong time, probably. But having said that, it was still the right thing to do in the longer run. Because ultimately the business partners values and goals and mindset in general, were just nowhere near aligned with mine. And it was an amicable enough divorce, if you like without too many negative consequences. And I’m old No, no, it’ll see the against that person to this day. They’re just not the same as me. And you know, with in most in a partnership, I think you always want to be better off together. And in this partnership, we’re better off apart. So nothing wrong with that. You can’t work with everybody and no one can. By no means do I absolve myself of any blame and responsibility. And I’m not saying I’m the easiest person in the world to work with either do it. So just one of those things that didn’t get picked up on the way by anybody involved. And we got out with a bloody nose and a lot of time, it wasn’t money wise, we must have been in money, nothing really material, to be honest with you. But if you costed the time and effort that went in, it had been really, really significant. And that that is what because obviously time is the one thing you can’t get back then we could have been working on much better or lower risk or longer term or whatever, could have put the focus somewhere else and that’s the plaster thing if I had a regret that would be realistic.


Julie Wilkinson  14:44

And when you sold it to like these other agencies then you know that had a good 80 bugs out was what made what do you think made your sort of infrastructure successful in their business that maybe you didn’t do you think they had a bit bigger infrastructure in general that they could do to piggyback off The back of what you’ve already done or


Adam Lawrence  15:04

I think what they were able to do, they took a very different approach to the way that they funded the business. But also, we had put a lot of stuff in, because remember the timing of the pandemic, we’ve done a lot of work in 2019, that was going to bear fruit going forward. And 2019 was actually a pretty limp year for a state agency, in general, most most results will tell you that people struggled a bit in 2019. So some of those shoots, were always going to bear some fruit in a good market, it’s just that I didn’t think it would be a good mark and ended up in an amazing market for agents. So there was definitely someone got to have the benefit of the systems and the processes and the structure and things that we put in place. But also, I think if if two people aren’t getting on as well as they could, then ultimately, I think that new blood really reinvigorated the remaining partner as well. He redoubled his efforts, and he was able and ultimately he is the brand, he is the face of the business. And he was able to really push forward and as others struggled, so I don’t doubt there’s some things I definitely did better than we did. But in terms of putting my finger on it, I would say it was more the Market Plus a reinvigorated untalented individual putting 110% back into something that I think he probably started to fall out of love with, when we were working together, which would have been insane. For everybody involved, ultimately.


Julie Wilkinson  16:32

Yeah. It’s interesting that you do a lot of jayvees. I mean, a lot of people in that position that we spoke to a lot of them are looking to partner with people, I suppose. Sometimes people get a bit, you know, because there’s all these talk about how many acquisitions are going on, people like it all for themselves, you know, they like the idea of buying something and then grow in it. Which you know, fair enough on your own, you do well, but I do sometimes think people don’t look to have enough partners on their side when they’re doing deals. What did you know, you was gonna go down the JV route? Do you think it’s easier?


Adam Lawrence  17:05

Oh, great, great. Couple of questions. So did I know Yeah, I think so. Because I love working with people, I love people. And being in an asset focused industry in general, then there aren’t that many people around. And certainly when you start offering property, and for years and years, potentially, you are a bit on your own. So that that wouldn’t that wouldn’t didn’t suit me at all. And I felt I needed you know, I JVM for expertise or JV for 30 people that were bringing equity investment, so JV for all sorts of reasons. Whereas these days are much more jiving with people who are pretty passive business partners, not all of them, some of them are extremely active in operating a group that we want to grow to a, you know, a really significant level. But the newer jayvees have tended to be more passive style arrangements for people. So that and do I think, I mean, I’m biassed, and I’ve done loads, the vast vast majority of what I’ve done is in JV. So I think the more you do, the more of a headache you create to yourself, because you’ve got to completely be of the opposite mindset of what you’ve said. So I look at the world, as far as that is 15 trillion nearly, of residential real estate in the UK. So I don’t even need to contemplate only naught point naught, naught 1% of that to have absolutely gigantic portfolio. So there’s plenty to go around. It’s the point that kind of make it I suppose. And I’ve always, it’s always worked for me over the years if I don’t worry too much about the slice of the pie that I’ve got. But I just focus 100% on growing the pie, and work with people who are of the same mindset and want to grow the pie. And you know, you do you do have to consider conflict of interest. And it’s difficult to be perfect and all that stuff. But I just made sure I don’t put my own needs before the business. It sounds dead simple to say that I know. But it’s more of a philosophy that I try and live by and say, Okay, what are we trying to achieve in this particular business? Right? How do we go about it? How have we got complementary businesses that can help each other? Ideally we have? Right and so that’s, that’s useful, because a bit like you mentioned earlier, you know, if you’ve got a way of keeping costs down, that can benefit other business partners or whatever, why not share it. Transparency is so important in these situations, you’ve got to be willing to lay out that you’re not trying to feather your own nest by doing this stuff. But everybody will. I’ll give you an example of that. It’s actually a new company. We’ve started not an acquisition, but we’ve agreed that we will do things for ourselves at cost plus 10%. And we’ve got a massive marketplace within the partners to do what to deliver what we’re delivering in that business. And everybody knows what the costs are and everyone knows what 10% margin is. And you look at it as a venture has got to be two eventually viable on its own, it can’t just be a drain on the resources or whatever. Otherwise, you’ll always I think you’ll always make mistakes in that part of the business if you do that. But as long as it is commercially viable, at least ticks over, and it provides other commercial benefits to you, then it works. So I think it, I wouldn’t understate how hard it is to try and get it right in partnerships, because I think it’s, it is a tough old, a tough old thing to do. But again, sort of clarity of, what do you expect to me? What do I expect to view? What am I going to be able to do, because if you’re gonna give me an operational role, I’m just gonna say it’s just not feasible. It’s not feasible, because I don’t have capacity for more operational roles. If you’re going to give me a strategic role. Well, actually, I love thinking through problems solving problems, I wouldn’t say enough telling people what to do. I’m sure some people would disagree with that. But I can frame it, I can frame it in a way I can explain it in a way that people don’t go away and get it done. And it brings gives me a lot of pleasure to see people come back and say, I’ve done this, and then we see if it works or not sort of thing, you know,


Julie Wilkinson  21:10

yeah, I like the funny talk about like, knowing what each business bakes. Or, as we see this, this is a problem so many times where people are paying something from one bank. And they’re not thinking then that how that impacts the rest of the entity. So really seeing the true margins, because, you know, I’ve seen it on acquisitions when people are buying it. And these, you know, these valuations are overstated, because maybe the buyers give it a bit too much away to the people they’re trying to buy from. And I saw a couple where they rally back all the costs. So they read about the accountant fees, they don’t back insurance, and all this sort of stuff at inflated the price by probably a few 100 grand at most, and it’s a bit like, Well, why would they not buy it at the I think you should buy businesses, you know, at the commercial, you know, activity that they’re that it costs to run that business. And their view was oh, yeah, but the buyers got all these at the group level, so they won’t need the costs. So there’s a bit level is a bit artificial, because one, you don’t add on like a newer firm to, to your account. And as an example, I’m not getting an additional charge, it might not be as expensive, because that’s the whole point, isn’t it? I’m having a group because you get like a bit of economies of scale, it might be not as expensive, but you would have some fee that Yeah, yeah. But they’ll pay that somewhere else. I mean, yeah, but that doesn’t matter, because you’d still recharge that cost to that entity. Because at the end of day otherwise, what this one suddenly got no costs in it. So it doesn’t cost anything to run that business. And then what happens is when people get multiple groups and they don’t then recharge the across a correctly like me, we would call it management recharges wherever you know as you know, there are huge room flight in certain businesses and probably actually not trading very well in some businesses, but they just don’t know. So totally


Adam Lawrence  22:54

agree. Totally agree. And you see that, you know, it’s it. On the flip side of that some of the smaller end cigar butt style acquisitions I’ve been involved in. it beggars belief to me that people were the funniest comment I ever got was management accounts. Why? Why do you want to see them? You’re not the bank? Are you? I don’t know what to do with that comment. Julie, do you not? I mean, I don’t want to offend anybody. But I mean, how do you want me to try and even put a value on this business? I’d understand. just doesn’t compute.


Julie Wilkinson  23:28

You’re not the bank? Oh, no, I’ve heard it as well. I’ve heard it are the things I hear is just I always say I’m gonna write a book one day because it’s hilarious, though. I’ve heard it. I’ve heard people go, Oh, no, we’re not. We don’t pay to our balance sheet accounts done. So then we go, oh, but it’s okay. Because you have the bookkeeping, so you can at least run a Profit Loss and balance sheet. And they’re just and someone just goes, Oh, no, well, we just post it anywhere and sort it out at the end of the year. Yeah, it’s a bit like how can again, you just don’t really know what to say? Because there isn’t actually anything to say at that point is there is just hilarious.


Adam Lawrence  24:02

One of my favourites was a lady who told us well, I everything I spend goes through the business that has been anything apart from through the business account. And then my accountant just sees what they can allocate at the end of the year. That’s one way of doing it.


Julie Wilkinson  24:20

Oh, is it is funny, but even a big business is that I’ve been I’ve worked with big corporates where, you know, we’ve done some deep dive analysis of management accounts and you know, they’ll have a small area of trading one business that you know, they might be 2030 or 50 mil but they one Mills, one trade and everything’s caught consolidated into like a sales number. So there’s only one cost centre of sales, but actually within that sales number, there’s maybe four or five different routes to market. And like we then I call this cost to serve. So you pull out each you basically pull out your p&l into each of your channels, each of your each of our kids so they work out so you come to the same net profits. Obviously you’ve made what you’ve made, but you split In that profit out between the channels, and I remember this exhibitions, I think they did seven and three of them made a loss. But they didn’t know because as a group, they were profitable. Actually, they did you know, when all the costs came in, and they split it out, you know, the number of staff that worked on although as a group, you know, as one entity they had, maybe they think they had the right number of staff overall, if you actually apportion the time of the people that were spending on those activities, it wasn’t cost effective for what they’ll make him.


Adam Lawrence  25:30

Yeah. So it’s a classic, isn’t it? When you haven’t got the correct information, you can’t make the correct decisions, it’s impossible to make the correct decisions.


Julie Wilkinson  25:40

Yeah. And I remember, just like, the importance of information, if there was something as simple as we looked at, like, if they had sold, the exhibition stands at the full price, they could have made X. And when they looked at what they had sold, I think they dropped 150k in a year or something. And when it turned out all that had happened was the person selling the standard just gone back to the same people every year. It’s just renegotiating like cheaper prices. It was nothing like it wasn’t because they wasn’t selling out, it was literally just that and that person didn’t even actually know they were doing that, you know, and no one had ever picked up on it. So then instantly, you know, that that probably a 50 minute conversation, but they could add 150 to it, that would that’s full margin them, because that’s what they could have been making, you know, and, and then you put in, like your processes and controls to say, well, it’s not like they can never give a discount. But you know, maybe someone senior has to sign off. So


Adam Lawrence  26:34

I’ve seen I’ve seen businesses where they’ve, they’ve, you know, they’ve targeted their sales teams on turnover, you know, and they haven’t even given them sort of margin, you know, guidelines or anything to work within. And of course, what happens is the salesperson drops the price, as much as they to wherever they need to to get the bill of business, whether it’s profitable or not, is another another kettle of fish. And that’s even in really some really quite big businesses. I’ve seen that happening, which is obviously just crazy. Yeah,


Julie Wilkinson  27:02

yeah, I’ve seen 20 Mill businesses, right, the marketing on the whiteboard. And the guy again, well, we think we should make you more money than we are. But they’ve got like this whiteboard with us where they won’t write the market order. It’s just like, unbelievable, but there’ll be these businesses do? Well, you know, there are some things, obviously, they could do well, but it’s just what can actually happen is, you know, I’ve seen people put 2% on the bottom line when they implement the right infrastructure of reporting. So anyway, I could go on, or


Adam Lawrence  27:29

you see people sell a business for a million quid. And then in three years time, it’s worth 5 million or 10 million, you know, with, if someone takes it on does the right things to it. And that I know, that happens at that 100 million level and beyond, you know, that’s just the way the but sometimes it is that that group infrastructure you were talking about, sometimes it’s just it really is as simple as saying, what’s the marketing plan? Nothing. That’s the what I did more than more than anything to be honest with you. So I totally get it. I agree. So then, obviously,


Julie Wilkinson  27:57

you’ve done well, you’ve obviously done a lot in business and property. So you know, just dispose of it personally, what’s your view got an end game, to what you’re doing?


Adam Lawrence  28:07

Yeah, I get asked that a bit, really. And I really don’t apart from making sure that it is organised and tidy enough to pass on. You know, I’ve still got relatively young children at the moment. So got lots of focus on on them, and their schooling and all the rest of it. And that’s what sort of keeps me keeps me busy outside of work. And apart from anything else. That’s absolutely my why. So for the moment, I think while I still get out of bed and enjoy it in the morning, I’ve considered that that’s good enough for me, really, I’m not, I’m not really driven by the numbers, I have a handle on the numbers, obviously. But I’m not really driven by a number or a number of properties or anything like that, really. I just sort of know those figures, because I know that’s what people want to know. But it’s not really about not enough being enough because I’ve got fair few people who I partner with, as you said, and then I’d like to try and put as much in as possible to grow the pie and enjoying the ride really Julie at the moment. So as long as that goes on. I’m gonna I’m gonna let that go on. I do. I do think in the future. At some point, I’d like to spend some months a year outside of the UK primarily, primarily the winter months just because I get dead miserable. You know, as soon as the clocks go back, I’m gonna write misery guts till about lunchtime. So probably probably need to address that at some point with four months abroad a year when the kids are growing up, maybe, but we have to see what happens what life throws at you, realistically. So I’m trying to surround myself now with people who were better than me faster than me younger than mean, and all the rest of it just so that that can everything can continue even without me really driving it forward.


Julie Wilkinson  29:53

And I suppose what would you say? I mean, if you didn’t do any new acquisitions, so you just had the companies that you had now Oh, yeah. Do you think if you stepped away, it would run without you at the minute?


Adam Lawrence  30:05

Today? No, no, he wouldn’t know. But I haven’t, I haven’t really set it up to be like that it wouldn’t take too much effort to do that. And that’s probably, you know, one of the major projects we’ve got on this year is so that anybody can understand all the financial reporting we were doing. And so we’re working towards that. But we should soon be at a stage where driving forward would be what we would lose out on the most rather than the whole thing. I mean, it wouldn’t fall apart. Don’t get me wrong, and I’m sure people that I would leave behind would would be able to step up to the plate. But it’s not really submitted on three months around the world cruise. Yeah. Because that’s not really the base that I’ve created yet. But I do I do need to. And that is certainly the next couple of years worth of time and effort and thought, going into that side of things.


Julie Wilkinson  30:55

Yeah. Wow. Sounds great. Well, we’re coming towards the end of the show. So I mean, what’s next on your agenda? Are you looking for anything in particular?


Adam Lawrence  31:04

Yeah. So I mean, I, like I said about businesses, I like buildings that can benefit from I mean, now, energy efficiency is such a big thing, and sustainable, sustainable improvements, things like solar power, and things like that. So not just looking in the property sector, looking for anything that’s got a, I would say, a business with either a manager in place, or a business that a manager could be slotted in relatively easily. I’ve seen a couple of things recently, where similar sort of thing that you were talking about with big turnover, where there isn’t any sort of board structure or even the you know, people are selling a business, but they’re the MD or they’re the CO nd. And there’s probably a year’s worth of work to do if you wanted to get into that. And they scare me off a bit to be honest, because I know the level of effort, I would need, you know, they’re not big enough to just force an army of consultants in to do it for you, you’d have to get involved and get two or three of my talented people to get involved in that. And then I suppose going back to my story, the one that didn’t go so well. It’s once bitten twice shy with ones that don’t go so well, because it’s the time that you’ve earned and the opportunities that you you don’t even know you missed. So scanning the market quite a lot and looking for things that also have got funny financial structures after COVID with recovery loans and see bills and this and that and the other things that we can maybe restructure things that are distressed or stressed as well, because really, that’s the way that we’ve built the property side of things. So I guess that’s if we have a specialism stress and distress would be


Julie Wilkinson  32:46

okay. So if anyone’s watching, you know who to watch the podcast and thinks they might have something for you, where’s the best place for them to find you.


Adam Lawrence  32:54

So Adam G. Lawrence on LinkedIn, absolutely the best place to find me. So drop me a message, or write an article about the economy and property every Sunday that I publish on my LinkedIn page, if anybody’s interested in that. It’s free to air, it’ll bore the hell out of us. 3000 Plus words long. But I try and stay on top of the major things that are happening in the in the world. And this weekend, they’ll be talking about energy, because there’s quite a lot of that in the News notes to various protesters here and there. So got a few things to say on that front.


Julie Wilkinson  33:28

Oh, cool. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Adam. It’s been really great to hear your story. Thanks for having me. All right. No, you’re welcome. And thanks to all our listeners, I hope you enjoy the show. If you have anything, any topics you want to cover, just drop me a message. But if you love our episodes, leave us a rating and review on Apple so that our listeners can find us. And we’ll see you again soon. So, once again, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our podcast. I hope you found it useful. If you think there’s anyone else in your network that might benefit from our podcast, and please share it with them, either just click the link and send it to them or send it in a Facebook group or other social media channel. Don’t forget to subscribe. So other podcasts come to you directly as of when we launch them. So I’m really looking forward to seeing you next time. We’ve got some really exciting things coming up. And we’ll see you again soon.